Have I been Wrong about the Rapture All Along?
I have been a believer for 40 years, and for that entire season, I have always believed that there would be a future event in human history when Yeshua would come into the sky and snatch believers away before the terrible time of the Great Tribulation started. In fact, it is through the reading of The Late Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsey that I first learned about the Rapture. It impressed me enough that it led me to invite Yeshua into my life as my Messiah and Savior. That was the Summer of 1983, exactly forty years ago. Back then, I knew nothing about the Bible or the end times; however, what I was learning about a just, loving and compassionate God seemed to make a lot of sense.
Fast forward to 2023, almost two decades of published daily devotionals, six books, and two degrees later, and the Rapture of the Believers is still on my mind. Frankly, it is probably on my mind more today than it was twenty years ago – likely due to all the world events occurring at a rapid pace in front of our eyes almost every single day.
The more I read my Bible, the stronger I feel about a premillennial, pre-tribulation Rapture (PPR). This has a lot to do with the approach to the word of God I have been taking for the last four decades. Early on, as I was told that God left me a love letter (the Bible) with a lot of instructions and direction about how to live with Him and for Him, I could never look at that book and not take its message literally. Otherwise, how many interpretations do we really end up with? This, of course, doesn't eliminate the use of figures of speech in the Bible, but we need to take God's counsel at face value and then, if necessary, seek a symbolic or allegorical meaning.
What happens if I have been wrong about the Rapture for the last forty years? So, I want to consider the possibility of the Rapture not happening.
One of the first things those who adhere to a premillennial, pre-tribulation Rapture (PPR) are often accused of is escapism. We are accused of trying to bail out before God's wrath when we should go through it. I guess it would be escapism if there were a sense of selfishness in those who believe in a PPR. The opposite is often the case. Those of us who believe in a PPR have a great sense of urgency, and the imminency of the Rapture is encouraging us to share the Good News even more so. Incidentally, the Bible never speaks of believers not going through difficulties, challenges and/or turmoil prior to the Tribulation. The days we live in seem to validate the idea that persecution is coming to believers as well as to Jews, and we have not even started the Great Tribulation yet.
Frankly, instead of a no-Rapture view, a lot of people believe in a post-tribulation Rapture that will happen simultaneously with the physical return of Yeshua the Messiah to the earth at the end of the seven-year Tribulation. Basically, the Rapture and Second Coming are separated by a few brief moments, making the Rapture less of an important milestone in God's program than it ought to be. One of the questions I have, is, "How could a Rapture happening at the end of a specific period of seven years be unknown and imminent?" How can the Rapture and the Second Coming be one and the same event when in John 14:1-3, Yeshua promised, "Do not let your heart be troubled; believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also."
Additionally, when we look at Revelation 19:11-21, which is the New Testament passage about the Second Coming of Messiah, there is no mention of the Rapture whatsoever. Why would that be if both events are linked or one and the same?
Do we have solid, biblical reasons to believe that the Rapture and the Second Coming are two separate events? I think we do, and let me offer just a few:
• Signs that are given before the event:
Before the Rapture: None - 1 Thessalonians 1:10
Before the Second Coming: Many - Matthew 24:4-28
• Location for the event:
Location for the Rapture: In the air - 1 Thessalonians 4:17
Location for the Second Coming: The Mount of Olives in Jerusalem - Zechariah 14:2-4; Revelation 19:14
• People taken at the event:
At the Rapture: Believers (the Bride of Messiah) are taken from earth and unbelievers are left behind - 1 Thessalonians 4:17
At the Second Coming: Living believers (the Bride of Messiah) enter the Messianic Millennial Kingdom and unbelievers are judged - Matthew 13:41-42; 49-50
• Changes on earth at the event:
At the Rapture: No topographical change.
At the Second Coming: Many changes on planet earth - Zechariah 14:1-11
There is no doubt that both the Rapture and the Second Coming of Yeshua describe His actual physical return. At the very least, what believers should focus on is the fact that Yeshua is coming back. In other words, the story isn't finished yet; far from it! Many will claim that there will be no Rapture as a single event, but that Yeshua will indeed return to Earth.
I hold to a premillennial, pre-tribulation Rapture view. There is always a possibility that I am wrong, although forty years of Bible study have only reinforced my position from several vantage points in the Bible. The prophetic significance of the Feasts of the Lord found in Leviticus 23 have helped to strengthen my view and so has the understanding of the Jewish wedding system and the Bride of Messiah.
Yet, if I am wrong, I am very encouraged by the wise words of Charles Ryrie in Come Quickly Lord Jesus, "If His coming should be pretribulational, then we will praise Him because we missed that terrible time. If it is postribulational, then we will gladly suffer for His sake. Either way, we still have the blessed hope of His coming."
You are not wrong, and should not even suggest that you are. We have several promises in the Scripture that the Church is not appointed unto wrath, and in Revelation the words of Yeshua stated that He would keep us from the hour of testing, that is to come upon the whole world. Even in Isaiah 26, the Prophet speaks of the Resurrection, hiding in the rooms while God pours out his wrath.
To not believe in the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is to not believe the Scriptures.
You can believe we are not appointed to wrath (and I do) and won't be in the Day of the Lord (also believe, without believing the Rapture is before the 7 years. It's a question of when the Day of the Lord starts.
FALSE. The rapture will ONLY be post-tribulational.
Can you explain how you come to that conclusion?
Hi Cecile. There is a lot of information providing a clear view of a pre-[fill_in_the_blanks] rapture.
When God is giving us information about the future, He often points to a prior event clarifying what He's talking about. And regarding His coming, Jesus points to the days of Noah and Lot.
Noa entered the ark - with one door, representing Jesus ("I am the door") - before the rain and was raised above the destruction - taken by force (raptured) by the waters.
Lot was taken by force before the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah - and listen to the words of the angels, taking Lot and his family by their hands, dragging them out (Ge. 19:16), "Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do any thing till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar" (Ge. 19:22). Likewise God can't do anything before we're home - because He is a righteous judge, and can not judge innocent people - even those He bought with His own blood.
Before the angels came to Lot, Jesus and Abraham were talking and Abraham says to Jesus, "That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?" (Ge. 18:25) and Jesus replied "If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes" - He even went down to save the cities with only 10 righteous people. God is not judging the righteous with the unrighteous, and that's why Paul says, "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (1. Thess. 5:9). And that was why the angels took Lot, his wife and two daughters by the hand, and dragged them out before the judgment, as Jesus takes us out of this world before the global judgment.
This is one of the pictures Jesus gave us to understand. "Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed." (Luke 17:28-30)
Now I know yet another theory has been thrown in here, that the wrath is after the sixth seal (Rev. 6:17). But that's just nonsense because it's the same Lamb (Jesus) opening the seals as is ordering the sounding of the seven trumpets and the outpouring of the seven vials. It's all God's wrath. The six seals are the experiences that make the world recognize that they are under the wrath of God.
Can you explain?
Very well said James, I completely agree. How could God so love the world that he sent His only son to die for the sins of man and then put us through the horrors of the Tribulation the same as those that reject God, hate God, love and practice evil instead of becoming a child of God and receiving salvation and forgiveness. How could we "comfort each other with this knowledge" if we were going through the Tribulation?
The answer is obvious.
"...These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful..."
"...And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean..."
We return from heaven with Christ Jesus to do battle in the war. We come back at the right time to deliver the nation Israel and those that accept Christ during the great tribulation.
It was the Late Great Planet Earth and his other book "The Rapture" by Hal Lindsey at the public library that in the spring of 1983 introdiced me to bible prophesy. For forty years Compairing the various views and watching the date setters come and go. the PPR view stands strong and gains more credibility daily as the signs of the times converge and point to the 70th week of Daniel coming sooner rather then later.....the time is at hand turn to Jesus Christ now in repentance John 3:16, 1 John 1:9
I think the strongest argument for the return of Christ happening at the same time as the rapture of believers is - "trumpets"!
1 Thess 4:16 says, "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first." A loud command, an archangel's voice, and a trumpet call - these don't sound very quiet to me (contrary to what's portrayed in the "Left Behind" books). "After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air" (v17). So, it's after all that noise, we meet the Lord in the air.
Now, the fact that we meet in the air doesn't mean we stay there. Have you ever arranged to meet someone outside a movie theatre or a sports event, prior to going inside together. In the same way, we can meet the Lord in the air before he descends to the Mount of Olives.
1 Cor 15:51-52 says, "Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed." There's the trumpet again! It's when the dead are raised and we're all changed.
But what's the "last trumpet"? I'd say it's from Revelation 11:15, when "The seventh angel sounded his trumpet". The following verses mention three things associated with this event:
v15 - "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Messiah". God's kingdom has finally come to earth.
v17 - "You have taken your great power and have begun to reign" - God is exercising his sovereignty on earth, as in heaven.
v18 - "The time has come for judging the dead, and for rewarding your servants the prophets and your people who revere your name". This judging and rewarding ties in with Matt 13:40-41, where Jesus said he would send out his angels at the end of the age.
Amen, brother. I agree with you wholeheartedly.
1 Thessalonians 4:14-18
1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Revelation 11:15-18 -- "Come up here..."
At the same time, as you wrote.
Hallelujah!
Come Lord Jesus, come.
These are all true, but it doesn't say when in the 7 years he comes for us (except we know it's not at the end, because we are not appointed to wrath. It has to be before the Day of the Lord, but the question is, exactly when does the day of the Lord begin? It's not as clear as people would like to believe.
Very well said, Ruth! I am hopeful for a Pre-Tribulation rapture, based on my study of the Bible and end times, but I completely agree that there is a definitely a realm of mystery to it. No viewpoint can undeniably say their view is right. Specifically, will we be spared all of it or some of it? Each of the viewpoints differ mostly on their interpretation of when they see “the day of the Lord” starting, and the timing of God’s wrath. But I love that quote that Oliver ended with by Charles Ryrie.
You will be glad to know that the rapture is perfectly clear. We are not appointed for wrath and that wrath begins the 7 years of Jacobs troubles as written of in Daniel. First of all The wrath is for the Jews not recognizing who He was on the first visitation when in the Old Testament it is mentioned many times. And second it is for the rest of this evil planet than is deep in sin as it was in Noah’s day. God rescued Noah and He rescued Lot before he burnt up Sodom and Gomorrah. Along with the facts it makes sense to me to do a bit of reasoning on the subject. Jesus paid our penalty for sin and on the cross He said, “It is finished!” Now why would He turn around and say we have to endure the wrath that sinners are being judged for. It doesn’t make sense at all. You can believe He is a good Father.
Well said, Dottie! I agree with you. I believe that Noah and Lot are two pictures of the Rapture. And just today I was reading those passages again. What comes out strongly in the passage with Noah is Genesis 7: 16 where it says "And the LORD shut him in." Then with Lot, in Genesis 19: 16 - the men (angels) took hold of the hand of Lot, his wife, and his two daughters, and brought them out of the city. And then in verse 22, the angel said: "Hurry, escape there. For I cannot do anything until you arrive there." God removed Noah and Lot before He poured out His wrath. We are not appointed to wrath.
Also, we need to consider the message to the church at Philadelphia:
“Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.”
Yet when we study the early church, we know that Rome subjected the saints to horrible atrocities such as in the colosseum where the lions, bears, or wild dogs killed them, all as sport for the blood-thirsty Romans, simply because the Christians would not deny the Christ. Are we more privileged than they?
We have to reconcile history with prophecy or vice versa.
Absolutely, I agree with all this and have great hope for Pre tribulation rapture, taking into account God’s character and the whole counsel of scripture. The verses about Lot and Noah particularly speak to a pre-Trib, since they emphasize a sense of normalcy in the world. As well as what we know of the purpose of the Tribulation: 1) salvation of the Jews, 2) last call for repentance on a rebellious world (first half), 3) God pouring out the bowls and His final act of wrath on those who reject Him and take the mark (last half). But I still think there’s room to ask, is the whole 7-years considered His wrath, or will believers still remain for the first part of the Tribulation and be removed before the Great Tribulation? I can see how some scriptures can be used to support both viewpoints. These questions are the heart of the debate between Pre-Tribbers and Mid-Tribbers. Although I hold the Pre-trib viewpoint, I think these questions are reasonable to ponder and be mindful of.
It's not the same trumpets. Read those texts carefully
Sorry but the « last trumpet » that John refers to cannot be the trumpet that Paul talks about simply because when Paul wrote 1 Co 15, the book of Revelation wasn’t even written yet!
Paul is referring to the prophetic fulfillment of the Feast of Trumpets. During the Feast of Trumpets, in the Temple, there was indeed a blowing of the Last Trumpet.
Jude 1:14-15 "Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all of them..."
If God could reveal to Enoch the Lord's coming for judgement several thousand years before John wrote Revelation, surely he could show Paul there would be a last trumpet just a few years before?
Paul said in 1 Cor 13:9 "we prophesy in part". Each prophet's revelation is partial - even John's.
Dear Denis,
There are a lot of Trumpets in Jewish ceremonies and there will be alot of Trumpets during the Tribulation. I myself always wondered about that verse at the last trumpet call. And I just found out the other day what it represents and it has nothing to do with the Last Trump of the Tribulation. It is the Last Trumpet call of the Feast of Trumpets. There were 100 of them. And they were all different. The last one was very long and distinctive. And guess what. No one would know when it would sound because it was based on the full moon rising and no one knew the hour because it was always different each season. HMMMMM....know one knows the hour?
There are a plethora of reasons why the Rapture will definitely be Pre-tribulation! I recommend for you to check out Pastor Billy Crone at Get a Life Media .com. Watch his sermon study called Are you Ready for the Rapture. There are 18 hour long sermons in the study that will completely assure you of the pretrib Rapture! It is Excellent and very informative and encouraging.
Here are a couple of other points:
Noah's Ark and the flood is foreshadowing of Jesus and the Rapture. God put Noah and his family into the Ark and shut the door (Jesus is the door/Ark) the only way into the Ark. Noah and his family were in the Ark 7 days (7 yrs) before the flood waters came up on the earth.
Enoch was taken by God as a type of rapture
Lot was taken out of Sodom and Gomorrah before the destruction
Jesus tells the Philadelphia church in it's Revelation letter that He will keep them from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world. The Greek wording used for keep them from is better translated keep them from before the hour.
If the church doesn't get raptured until he returns in the 2nd coming it messes up a lot. During the 7 years of tribulation the church is being prepared for the wedding feast. It's the Beama Seat Judgement. First in the pretrib rapture believers are resurrected into their glorified bodies. Dead in Christ first and then we who are still alive. Then we go through the judgement where are works are purified in the fire and measured for rewards and crowns. This is going to take some time I would imagine. Afterwards we come to earth with Christ at His 2nd coming. How could all that be accomplished if we go up at the 2nd coming? Doesn't make any sense. Plus the pretrib Rapture and the 7 yrs and the purification Beama seat Judgement etc etc all match the symbolism of the Jewish wedding. So please check out Are you Ready for the Rapture by Pastor Billy Crone!!! All your questions will be answered!
Blessings to you!
Regarding the Feast of Trumpets, the only mention of it in the books of Moses says, "On the first day of the seventh month hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. It is a day for you to sound the trumpets." (Num 29:1). That's it! Maybe there were 100 trumpets or maybe there weren't - it doesn't say. But the only scriptural reference to a series of trumptets is in Rev 8 - 11.
Regarding Lot, Peter said, "if he rescued Lot, a righteous man ... then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment" (2 Pet 7, 9). The Israelites were in Egypt during the plagues, but they avoided most of them.
But this doesn't mean we won't go through trials, persecution, or even death. Twice in Revelation, believers are told to patiently endure. First, in 13:7 - 10:
"(The beast) was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them (v7) ... If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity they will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword they will be killed. This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of God’s people (v10)"
This call to endure is repeated in Rev 14:12. But if believers aren't there, then why do they need to endure? And if it's only those who become believers after the rapture, then why aren't they taken also, so they don't have to go through it either?
I recommend this recent article by the respected Jewish believer, Dr Michael Brown:
https://townhall.com/columnists/michaelbrown/2023/07/30/the-big-problem-with-the-any-minute-rapture-n2626378
Hi Denis, thank you for posting that article. I had a chance to read it, and wanted to share some thoughts. I did find it interesting that Mr. Brown says in 2 Thess 2:1-8, Paul "plainly tells us..." The wording of this verse is a source of much debate between the differing viewpoints -- I think there's more "mystery" than "clarity" when it comes to this verse. The debate centers on this: what is Paul referring to when he says "that day" in verse 3? Some scholars say "that day" is referring to the rapture, some say it's the Second Coming, and some say he's referring to the start of the Great Tribulation (which is the second half of the Tribulation). Just a straight read of the verse, all three options could fit, so I think it's fair to say there is some mystery. I'm not dogmatic on my view, but, in context, I think "that day" is referring to the start of the Great Tribulation. It seems the Thessalonians were worried they had missed the rapture, and, consequently, were worried that they were currently living in the time of the Tribulation. In this verse, it seems Paul is reassuring them that they aren't in the Great Tribulation and tells them "that day" (the Great Tribulation) will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessnes is revealed. In verse 4, Paul then continues to describe the event that will happen at the start of the Great Tribulation -- the Antichrist "will oppose and exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, and set himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God'' (this is the "abomination that causes desolation"). Like other scholars, these details make me more inclined to think that "that day" is referring to the Great Tribulation vs the other options mentioned above. The phrase, "The day of the Lord" is a familiar Old Testament expression that refers to the day when God intervenes to judge the wicked and a Christ-rejecting world, deliver His people, and establish His Kingdom. Sometimes, in scripture, the phrase is harping on the positive points (deliverance and His coming), but other times it's harping on the negative points (judgment and wrath), so that can add to the mystery of this topic (hence, the varying viewpoints). This verse doesn't prove a pretribulation rapture, however, it does provide a rebuttal when other viewpoints say the rapture can't happen until after the Antichrist is revealed -- if "that day" is referring to the Great Tribulation, then the verse is saying the marker of the Great Tribulation is when the Antichrist's true identity and agenda is revealed. I just wanted to share that perspective.
To process the other question you brought up about believers in the Tribulation, the pretribulation viewpoint sees the current time that we're living in as the "Age of Grace" (which started at Pentecost and will end at the start of the 7-year Tribulation). One of the purposes of the Tribulation is to call the sinner to repentance. During the first half, God will use His judgements to bring repentance to those who have previously rejected Him. Thankfully, many will become believers at that time (although, sadly, many will continue to rebel and reject Him). Yes, they may have missed the rapture (from a pre-trib viewpoint), but they won't miss eternal life with Christ. Paul is an example of one who had to suffer after becoming a Christian: "I will show him how much he must suffer for my name" (Acts 9:16). The Jews and believers alive at Christ's return will mourn at His return (Mathew 24:30, Rev 1:7, & Zech 12:10) -- from a pretrib viewpoint, these are the ones who will enter and repopulate the earth during Christ's Millennial Reign (the believers already in heaven will return with Christ at His coming). There's much more depth to it, but this is at least a quick summary of the pretrib viewpoint on those factors. I believe we have hope for a pretribulation rapture, taking into account the whole counsel of scripture, however, all the varying viewpoints make sense and have good points, so I typically hold to what Charles Ryrie says: “If His coming should be pretribulational, then we will praise Him because we missed that terrible time. If it is postribulational, then we will gladly suffer for His sake. Either way, we still have the blessed hope of His coming.” (On that note, what you said about the Israelites being protected from God's wrath during the Egyptian plagues makes sense -- whether there's a pre, mid, or post rapture, whichever Christians are on planet earth during the Tribulation, God can certainly protect His people when He's pouring out His wrath, even while they're experiencing persecution from man. I think this will especially be the case during the last half of the Tribulation -- when God's wrath intensifies toward those who took the mark -- otherwise, how would any who didn't take the mark be able to "look upon Him" when Christ returns.)
I’ve always been pre-trib and pre-mil. However this verse has bothered me for years. Most translations change the word in verse 2 from CHRIST to LORD. Im not sure if the DAY OF THE LORD and THE DAY OF CHRIST are synonymous
READ IT CAREFULLY!!!
2 Thesalonians 2:2 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
This is key. I was the same for years, but now question exactly when the day of the Lord begins. Joel says it begins with cosmic disturbances, which do not occur at the beginning of the 7 years, but after the 6th seal. Will we be here to see A/C revealed and then be raptured?? Lot's of questions.
In my study, I have read that “that day” is referring to the start of Great Tribulation - so, how I understand the verse is, the Great Tribulation (the Second half of the Tribulation) will not start until the Antichrist’s true agenda is revealed. Up until that point, he will just be seen as a political figure, but at the midway point, he will commit the “abomination that causes desolation” and demand to be worshipped, revealing himself for what he truly is. So, it will be at that pivotal moment that the Great Tribulation (“that day”) will start. Paul is saying this is the marker, how the world will know the Great Tribulation has started. I know there’s several interpretations, but I wanted to share this viewpoint because the meaning of “that day” is a bit mysterious and is one of the factors in the different rapture viewpoints.
I have been a believer since Nov. '72, over 50 years now., I have considered all the Rapture positions, and am convinced the Pre-Trib Rapture is correct. The Post-trib Rapture is false because it contradicts at least two passages, Rev 20:4 and the Mathew 25 Sheep and Goats Judgment.
I have also been a believer for over 50 years - April 1973, so you predate me by a few months.
I read "The Late Great Planet Earth" soon after my conversion, and I think I've read most of the "Left Behind" books. But I have always believed that Jesus would return just once at the end of the age, for his "second coming" - and not a second coming for believers and a third coming for the world. I have read all the scriptures that supposedly support a pre-trib rapture (including Matt 25:1-13 and Rev 20:1-6), but they can support the post-trib interpretation just as easily.
One thing I'd like to point out brother. If we hold to a literal 1,000 year Millenial Reign of Christ, and we receive glorified bodies at the time of the Rapture. The there would be no one to repopulate the earth during the Millennium. There MUST be at least a Mid-Tribulation Rapture (Which I do not believe in).
Just something to consider. Thanks!
Those who make it through the Tribulation will be the ones to repopulate the earth. Those raptured will have glorified bodies and are the Bride of Christ who will rule and reign with Him.
Linda, you are correct! Why are so many believers ready to believe that our loving God would send His children to be slaughtered? We are not appointed to wrath, the Tribulation is the outpouring of God"s wrath, it is Jacob"s trouble ( unsaved Jews) and all others who reject Jesus.
The Late Great Planet Earth figured prominently into my salvation--one of the first steps on the road. I have been pre-Trib all my Christian life (which is quite long), but I have always been bothered by II Thess 2. Yes, the scripture is clear that we are NOT appointed unto wrath. It says we will be exempt from the Day of the Lord. The problem is, I am not so sure that the Day of the Lord is the entire 7 years. Jesus said there would be great tribulation after the Abomination of Desolation at the midpoint. Joel says that great cosmic disturbances will appear BEFORE the Day of the Lord (meaning heralding the Day of the Lord). That does not happen at the beginning of the 7 years. It happens after the 6th seal,when "the wrath of the Lamb is come." What if The Day of the Lord begins when A/C is revealed to the Jewish people at the midpoint--and those in Israel who love God flee? And what if The Apostasy (definite article) is when millions of "professing" Christans take the mark at the midpoint. II Thess might be saying that we will be here to see that--and then we will be raptured, before the Day of the Lord. I do NOT believe a post-Trib rapture is supportable through scripture. But mid or pre-wrath seems possible to me. I think too many people are totally convinced that the Day of the Lord is the entire 7 years, and don't pay enough attention to II Thess 2, which should give them pause.
Agree with you Ruth . Daniel 9 :27 however does clarify the 7 years and Daniel 12:11 mentions the mid point and the other 1290 days which is 3.5 years . The book of Daniel is the key
Ruth, I completely agree. Although I consider myself a Pre-tribber, that verse has made me wonder about mid-trib. There’s so many aspects and mystery to the rapture, so I’m still hopeful for a Pre-Trib (based on other verses), but mid-Trib isn’t an unlikely possibility also. I also believe this verse is used to alert the world of when the Great Tribulation (“that day”) will start — the key marker of the start of the Great Tribulation (the second half of the Tribulation) is when the Antichrist reveals his true agenda, by committing the abomination that causes desolation and demands to be worshipped.
You will finally discover your answer to the timing of the rapture when you take the time to scroll through the Scriptural information found on my prophetic website @ https://www.countdowntodaniels70thweek.com/unlocking-the-timing-of-daniels-70th-week.php .
I am a strong Believer. I love the LORD with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength, and I make an effort to put God first in everything I do. I have read the Bible many times over. But I still have questions. God is always faithful and gracious to answer them, often immediately. Usually He directs me to scripture, and the Holy Spirit gives me new discernment. Sometimes He answers me in dreams or visions. Sometimes He answers supernaturally in direct mysterious ways.
More than 11 years ago on December 21, 2011, in my evening prayers, sensing that we might be approaching the end of the age, I asked God this question. “Is the Rapture for real?” I asked Him, if it was His will, to show me the answer, possibly in a dream or vision. At 3:30 am on December 22, I awoke. I was laying on my side looking directly at the clock, pondering my question to God.
All of a sudden at 3:33 am, I got this amazing energy sensation (kind of tingly) in the center of my torso, which immediately enveloped my entire body. My body was lifted straight out of bed, transformed from mortal to immortal. I went through the ceiling and momentarily saw the inside of our attic. I went through the roof into the cold drizzly night, but I didn’t feel anything but pure joy! I went all the way up above the clouds.
I was about to enter Heaven and was told that God wanted me to have a preview of the Rapture, but it was not yet the appointed time, and I must return to the Earth. Immediately I was back in the bed, but I could still feel the energy sensation. I felt it for at least 24 hours! His answer to my question was literal and physical, not a dream or a vision!! I still remember the whole experience vividly, and I still remember the energy sensation when my body was changed!! It was glorious!!!
The Rapture IS for real! And you can look forward to it BEFORE the Great Tribulation. This I know for certain. And it will be very, very soon!!!
Many hearts seeking wisdom on this. Scripture, study (commentaries, Strongs, etc.), cross referencing, exegesis & interpretation; all are important. What does God want us to understand, to know? Maybe it could be summed up in "faithfulness". God, in the form of the Son, Jesus- Yeshua, was empowered to "go all the way", to suffer unto the end of His physical expression of life on the Cross. Could we, the One New Man, Jew & Gentile in Messiah, the Bride, be, as in Genesis 2:23 "bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh" (Adam referring to Eve) likewise empowered by the Spirit to "go all the way" as a unified witness to every tribe, tongue and nation (ethnos, people group) with our Bridegroom, thus going thru the Tribulation?
Vernon, the perspective you’re speaking of is common with the post-Trib viewpoint. But the Bible verses saying believers are not appointed to wrath are because Jesus took on God’s wrath on our behalf when He died on the cross (so believers who have put their trust in Christ’s sacrifice are not appointed His wrath). Biblical examples of God removing the righteous before pouring out His wrath include Noah, Lot, and Rahab. The big question (and debate between the rapture viewpoints) mostly center on the timing of God’s wrath. Pre-tribbers see the whole Tribulation as God’s judgment on a Christ-rejecting world. They see the first half of the Tribulation (the “trumpets”) as God’s judgements being used to call the sinner to repentance, and the second half (the “bowls”) as God eliminating evil (particularly those who take the mark) in order to cleanse the earth of evil before the Lord’s coming and the start of His righteous reign. The rapture timing is certainly a bit of a mystery but I just want to share this perspective.
Millie, I appreciate your way of gracefully sharing your hope and understanding, to be gently assertive yet not so dogmatic that you alienate others who might see these matters differently. That gift is needed in the Body of Messiah. And, yes, the Ryrie quote from Mr. Melnick that you referred to in another comment is quite appropriate. Until that Day, Blessings and Shalom in Messiah.
Thanks Vernon! Blessings and peace to you too too!
I have been given x amount of yrs on this planet. To get to know my Saviour. To know HIS purposes and plans for my life and to receive His strength to carry them out. He will come when He is ready to. I may go Home early or will watch it unfold from heaven after i die. Makes no difference. I need to be about my Father's business. I don't know all the answers and that is OK. We are to know the times and seasons we are in and to prepare.
The 7yTrib is a two fold event.(1). To chastise Gods wife the Jewish nation.to eventually bring out a remnant that believes and trust their True Messiah.(2).Is to deal with a an unbeleving world who have totally corrupted the earth and destroyed the temple of God (i:E)man,have totally rejected salvation from a Loving merciful God.and are bent on consuming pharmakiea.
The Late Great Planet Earth lead me to salvation in the Fall of 1971.
Good discussion...1 Thessalonians 5: 8 - 10